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dustcap
03-20-2012, 01:33 PM
I'm sure I've seen this topic before, but never paid much attention. Do the rental companies carry liability insurance on the drivers? I know you can purchase the collision etc or some accept the Amex waiver coverage without hassle. But, what about the other car if you are at fault?
dusty

tcobb
03-21-2012, 08:39 PM
The following was copied from the AMEX Premium FAQ section. It appears that they do not cover liability if you hit someone. Make sure you understand the insurance coverage you are getting from whatevere rental company you go with. Nothing like a nasty surprise during a great vacation in Bonaire.
"No, the Premium Car Rental Protection plan does not provide liability or any other coverage such as uninsured motorists, damage to any other driverís car or the injury of anyone or anything. You may request liability coverage through your Car Rental Company."

tcobb
03-21-2012, 08:41 PM
I did not read your post close enough - you already know AMEX will not cover the liability. Sorry.

jkehnle
03-22-2012, 08:24 AM
Hi, Dustcap -- as a matter of personal comfort, when I'm renting a car out of the US of A, I purchase every insurance available at the rental agency. I know I've peed away a lot of money over the years, but two years ago in the UK it really proved to be a good thing.

And can you believe there are 4 -- count 'em, 4 Ohio teams in the Sweet Sixteen (as of this morning, that is....)!?!

J Brown
03-23-2012, 10:40 AM
Getting tough to pay for rentals with AMEX on the island anyway.

CaptNick
03-23-2012, 11:27 AM
I purchase every insurance available at the rental agency. I know I've peed away a lot of money over the years, but two years ago in the UK it really proved to be a good thing.

I agree with you. I had a very very bad experience relying just on AmEx some years ago in St Thomas, USVI, I got burned very badly. The dispute lasted almost a year and now I refuse to deal with Amex at all. instead get as much insurance as possible from the rental and assume that is the cost of renting a car.

And yes it is sad that, they adversite a car being $17 a day but the wioth full insurance it ends up beong $85 a day..... (recent experience on ropute to Bonaire when I spent a day in Houston)

dustcap
04-06-2012, 07:45 PM
OK but if I purchase the CDW will IT cover liability?

TIdlof
05-08-2012, 07:06 PM
OK but if I purchase the CDW will IT cover liability?
No, pretty sure we all agree that CDW does not cover liabilty. And after as much research as I can manage, including calling my local State Farm agent, I still don't have an answer for where to get it and how much it costs and why this isn't spelled out for us typical yahoo toursts. .

And talking to folks who routinely go there hasn't shed any light. One answer: An umbrella policy. But that is never primary coverage and only provides 2ndary protection to specific and basic auto coverage. Anyone relying on that idea apparently has their rose colored glasses on.

So, why is their no concern and straight forward answer for US tourists? Is Bonaire a no-fault state and medical care is free? Not likely. And even if they did, they still have lawyers, right? I can believe the chance of a huge "pain, suffering, income loss " judgment is small but any kind of blame or even question in an accident could easily result in a delayed departure, right?

So, if anyone has anything to add, I'd love to hear it. We're arriving Saturday. Thanks.

chickster
05-08-2012, 08:54 PM
We always take the FULL insurance at $19 a day for the 2 weeks we are there. We've been to Bonaire 7 times and have never had any issues or accidents with the truck. It is just the piece of mind of knowing that you are covered. Friends of ours rented a truck last year. It was stolen in front of their condo in the middle of the night, taken out into the middle of nowhere and burned. They negotiated with the rental car agency, but still had to pay a HUGE chunk of the cost of the truck.

randl
05-08-2012, 11:41 PM
Some liability coverage is available for damage to the "other" vehicle as chickster mentioned. For example, take a look at http://www.abcarrental.com/insurance.html. There are other rental companies that offer similar coverage. As for "pain, suffering, income loss" and the like, your plan to get information from your auto insurance agent sounds right on the mark. If your agent can't answer those questions it might be time for another agent's opinion:confused:. S/he should be the authoritative source.

TIdlof
05-09-2012, 12:58 AM
"We always take the FULL insurance at $19 a day...."

Thanks for the reply. So, to be clear, the FULL insurance you've had includes liablility? Perhaps that assurance is buried in the full documentation that is available, but not posted on the website.

The best I can see on, say the AB or Island website is something about the other vehicle (or maybe "other damage"). There is no explicit language such as "payment for bodily injury.........including the cost of defending you in a lawsuit." No one seems to be able to say that very common phraseology that we all have in the States can be had at any price.

As I summarized to my traveling companions, I'm not worried about paying to fix someone's truck or property. I'm worried about paying to fix someone's kid.

DiverVince
05-09-2012, 05:57 AM
No, pretty sure we all agree that CDW does not cover liabilty. And after as much research as I can manage, including calling my local State Farm agent, I still don't have an answer for where to get it and how much it costs and why this isn't spelled out for us typical yahoo toursts. .

And talking to folks who routinely go there hasn't shed any light. One answer: An umbrella policy. But that is never primary coverage and only provides 2ndary protection to specific and basic auto coverage. Anyone relying on that idea apparently has their rose colored glasses on. "

Don't know the source of your info on this, but an umbrella policy will cover any auto liability exposure (as well as many other forms of liability coverage) on the island of Bonaire or indeed anywhere in the world. Generally speaking the umbrella kicks in after the primary limits of the underlying policy are exhausted. However it also fills in the gaps of coverage under primary policies. No US auto policy will cover a liability exposure on Bonaire, an umbrella endorsed onto your HO policy in the states will..The liability insurance afforded under the umbrella covers oneís non-business activities anywhere in the world. Having the added protection of a liability umbrella policy is coverage no one should go without.

DeputyDan
05-09-2012, 12:49 PM
I also take the full coverage whenever I rent a vehicle.
Having traveled allot, I have had two instances where I have said a thank you prayer for having had the insurance.
You don't like the insurance or the cost until you need it... then it was/is worth every penny.

There is also the communication issues involved in a non-English speaking country that just are not worth the hassle.

TIdlof
05-09-2012, 08:45 PM
Thank you for the response and discussion.

Agreed, an umbrella policy is a wise move. But what company do you have or are you basing your response on? Because according to my State Farm agent who I've had for 13 years, the caveat is that I have to buy or attempt to buy whatever insurance is available. The umbrella policy would kick in if the liability insurance is actually not available.

On pursuing the question with Poppy, she sent me two things:

1. This link to a carrier: http://www.ennia-bonaire.com/language/en/prive

2. and this language.
What Does Auto Liability Insurance Cover?In essence, if you're responsible for an auto accident that injures someone, damages another person's vehicle or other property, your liability insurance will pay the damages. Obviously, the damages to a person would be medical in nature, while the rest would be to repair or replace the damaged vehicle or property. It is divided into two categories for the above reasons:. The amount of coverage provided will vary from place to place, and policy to policy. Because it is perhaps the most important component of any auto insurance policy, your level of liability protection can usually be raised above the minimums required in a given state or municipality. Max US$.83.700,= Coverage.per case. Two Components of Auto Liability Insurance As mentioned above, there are two basic components of auto liability insurance: bodily injury (BI) and property damage (PD). In some policies, liability coverage is available either as a combined single limit policy, or as a split limit policy:

Combined single limit - A combined single limit combines property damage liability coverage and bodily injury coverage under one combined limit.
Split limits - A split limit liability coverage policy separates the coverages into property damage and bodily injury.
BODILY INJURY LIABILITY (BI)This component of auto liability coverage protects the policy holder should they cause bodily injury or death in the course of an accident. It also provides for a legal defense if another party in the accident files a lawsuit against you. More specifically, claims for BI may be for such things as medical bills, loss of income, or pain & suffering. Because a high percentage of accidents result in serious injury, you will want enough liability coverage to equal or exceed a judgment against you in a lawsuit - without putting your personal assets in jeopardy. Because this coverage isn't for your vehicle or yourself, but for the vehicles of others and their bodies, you should definitely carry the same levels of liability on all your cars and trucks regardless of their value. Bodily injury liability coverage is usually further segmented into a maximum payment per person and a maximum payment per accident. Max US$.83.700,= Coverage.per case. In the insurance business it's referred to as dual coverage limits, and is noted as two numbers. However, coverage is limited to the terms and conditions contained in your policy. PROPERTY DAMAGE LIABILITY (PD)This component of liability coverage is for damages to someone else's vehicle or property. That could be the car, or it could be a tree, a shed, a bicycle, or any other property damaged during an accident. It also provides you with legal defense if another party files a lawsuit against you for those property damages. Again, coverage is limited to the terms and conditions contained in your policy.

OK, fair enough, this will work. But wait, now I just need to confirm that this is indeed what she offers and is not just what is available for us to get on our own.

As Tom Waits said: "The BIG PRINT giveth......and the small print taketh away."

TIdlof
05-10-2012, 12:08 PM
To put a wrap on this......

I sent this to Poppy:

But to confirm, is the Ennia company providing the insurance we buy from you and does the language below define our coverage? I just wanted to make sure I understand completely.

She responded with this:

Hi Ted, Glad that we could give you the information you requested. Yes the information given to you is from our Ennia Insurance Company. All our Cars and Trucks or covered by Ennia Caribe, when you take our CDW.! When you decline our CDW, you are responsible for all damage, to our vehicle and all party...

So, for the next person who has this question, FWIW and taking Poppy at her word, here are my conclusions;
1. Poppy has been responsive and demonstrated why she is the most popular car company on the island; "treats you like family" fits.
2. She has one type of insurance at $12/day. She calls it CDW but it apparently (with these EM exchanges) includes liability (up to $83K max)
3. Other companies have 2 types; $12/day for CDW (specifically covers only the rental car) and another $7/day for "Full coverage". Presumably that includes comparable liability ($83k), although their websites are quite vague on what "full" means.
4. U.S. "Umbrella" insurance covers additional costs after the initial local/specific insurance benefits are exhausted. That level of coverage usually starts at $1 million.

OK, done with this. Time to pack.

BonnieC
05-10-2012, 09:36 PM
Thank you, TIdlof, for being persistent enough to get an answer. Years ago, insurance was not a big worry, but as the traffic gets busier and crazier every year, it's a much bigger concern.
One more reason to rent from Poppy!
Have a good trip.

travelcfo
09-14-2012, 05:46 PM
This forum is so very helpful. I have asked Poppy for the details on this as well but have NOT gotten this type of information. Seems that it comes up a lot and that Poppy (or someone) would send this information and link to the website that carries their insurance. My State Farm rep advised I needed this type of detail to know for sure about 3rd party liability.
Has anyone else received this detail from Poppy? It's not that I don't trust this information, I just find it odd that I have not been given the same information.... so my concern is that it might have changed. Everytime I ask about insurance and try to be specific about 3rd party liability (even spelled out in my email to Poppy I was looking for info on worst case that we harm another person via car accident) all I get is the deductible she has on damage to the rental car.
Just wondering whether others have recently been given this info.

thx all

travelcfo
10-31-2012, 03:23 PM
I all! I am back and was hoping someone would have been able to give more detail and confirmation of TIdlof's post. I heard from Poppy who said I should contact Ennia, their carrier, but Ennia said they cannot tell me the detail and that I must get that from Poppy. So.... here I am again! I did email Poppy and hope she will be able to provide the same detail given to TIdlof.

Has anyone recently been and have their paperwork? That might have the details.

Thanks all!

kob
10-31-2012, 03:32 PM
Just got back from BON & rented from Poppy. Used my Delta Amex card. Got a one page contract from Poppy's guy who met me at the airport; had minimal info, just the basic name, address, signatures, initials, etc.

But rental went well with only one minor problem easily solved (loose battery cable, which I tightened). Truck was well-worn but reliable, with tank rack in back. One of the tires was worn past what we would usually consider "time to replace", but since we weren't going into Slagbaai this trip, again no problem.

DJD
11-01-2012, 12:43 PM
what rental Co is Poppy affiliated with? Thanks!

kob
11-01-2012, 01:04 PM
She has her own company Telerin ... no website, but you can email Poppy at marcolva@hotmail.com (marcolva@hotmail.com)

randl
01-30-2013, 07:56 AM
We carry homeowner's insurance with Ennia via an agent at MCB, someone who has been on island for many years selling insurance. I asked her about purchasing supplemental liability specifically for our Telerin truck rentals. Here is her reply:

All automobiles are required by law to have a minimum of third party liability coverage. A vehicle cannot be licensed without proof of valid insurance - rental car companies are no exception. I have checked with the insurance carrier for Telerin and their representative confirms that these rental vehicles do have third party liability coverage. This type of insurance covers bodily injury or damage to persons or property. The additional insurance you purchase from Telerin covers damage to the rental vehicle itself as this risk is apparently self-insured by the rental company. For good order there should be a copy of the liability insurance in the glove box of the vehicle as it is also required by law to have this document available at all times. If it is not there, you should demand a copy.

I hope this is helpful.

randl

randl
01-31-2013, 07:23 AM
Giving this post a bump to the front as it answered a question for me that seemed to be of general interest a little while ago.

randl

Gdog
02-13-2013, 08:22 PM
Anybody know who Dive Hut uses to set their customers up with truck rental?

parachute
02-14-2013, 04:41 PM
I believe it is Island Car Rentals.