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Thread: what does it really mean

  1. #11
    tursiops's Avatar
    tursiops is offline Bonaire Lover SUPPORTING MEMBER - Bonaire Talker
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    Change "you" to "the people" in thom's post....does it work now?

    It seems the people want the money from Holland for infrastructure and medicine.
    It seems the people want the money from dive tourists.
    It seems the people want the money from cruise ships.
    It seems the people don't want the Dutch or the tourists on the island, the people don't want it to change, the people want it to be a small fishing village like it was 50 years ago, but with all the money and conveniences provided by the Dutch and the divers and cruisers.
    Mel Briscoe, Alexandria, Virginia

  2. #12
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    GMichael

    I thought the Bonairians voted. It was my understanding that this is exactly what they wanted.

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    Yes, the Bonaireans voted for a "direct link " with The Netherlands. But they did not vote to become a Municipality of The Netherlands with all the rules and laws as in the Netherlands - and of course the moment it costs more money Bonaire is not Holland for the Dutch politicians only if is interesting to them Bonaire is Dutch.
    That we are now just Dutch was a political game played after the referendum by mostly the Green Party (Ramoncito Booi) but also the Red Party (Joopi Abrahams).
    The enormous amount of Dutch Civil Servants coming and going and/or living for a short time on Bonaire is just so dominating in all parts of daily live now that it is certainly not very easy to digest ... and I think that is not only for the real Bonaireans the case but also for many European Dutch and other nationalities living for 10, 20 years or longer on the island.
    These civil servants from low to high treat the people here like a lower class human being. The Bonairean feels it as racism but they do it also with the white people from wherever they come from as they too have been so stupid to live on this primitive island..... and of course these Dutch Civil Servants know much better than yourself what is good for you ..... and quite a number of these civil servants have been heard in shops or restaurants talking about all of us like that !
    Some say the schools are better now ... but I know quite a number of people not agreeing
    Some say the hospital/doctors are better now ... but I know quite a number of people not agreeing.
    And than the absolute mess they made with different taxes ... and the super mess with the Vastgoedbelasting - the tax for 2nd houses etc !!!
    The imposed law for Euthanasia, for marriage of homosexuels, for abortion ... absolute against the culture of most Bonaireans ! The Dutch had soooo many years to get used to these things, here it had to be done in just a little more than 1 year !
    And there is much more .... too much to mention it all here ....
    Brigitte - owner Coco Palm Garden

  4. #14
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    kob is offline Bonaire Lover SUPPORTING MEMBER - Bonaire Talker
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    Thanks for the perspective, Brigitte. In addition to the Bonaireans and those of you who have lived on island for years, this is also a little disconcerting for those of us who own homes on Bonaire and plan to live there soon. Please keep us posted on conditions as they evolve. Masha danki.
    KOB
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    Thanks Bridge.

    I guess the locals did not understand what Europe is all about, Regulation with a capital R. European governments are convinced they are the ones who know how people should live and believe and act, furthermore, they believe it is their responsibility to make that happen.

    Of course the US is not far behind Europe in the Regulation department.

    It's really a shame if Bonairians didn't know, they should have known, they should have educated themselves, they should have visited Holland, paid Dutch taxes, understood Dutch governance. At least a few of them should have done so then communicated that with the rest of the locals. It probably is to late now.

    It seems hardly reasonable to blame this on the Dutch, they are just acting Dutch. Does the Dutch government believe they are superior to the Bonairian locals in knowledge, intellect, and knowing how things should be done? Of course they do. They believe those same things about their relationship to the locals back in Holland. This is nothing unique to Holland, it is what governments believe and what they do.

    Maybe the real failure on the part of the locals was believing they would have a significant say in how the island is used. That was probably wishful thinking. The 16 million Dutch living in the Netherlands significantly out-vote the 16 thousand Bonairians.

    You can be sure that the real price the locals pay for that sewer system will be vastly more than they ever anticipated.

    It really is a shame. Many of us wish it were not so. Many of us wish Governments would shrink, not grow. Many of us wish Governments would just leave us alone. Many of us will never realize our wishes.

  6. #16
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    I know Europe more than well, I worked for them.... but even I voted for a direct link with Holland. The idea was - more or less said so by the Green Party - something like an oversea municipality as the French have with some of their islands .... my - our mistake - to have accepted a vague point to vote for like that "direct link" ... and even I and many Dutch here on the island have never thought they do it the way they are working here !
    By the way for anybody who can read Dutch ... there is a book by Trix van Bennekom " De Tragiek van Bonaire" - a Dutch journalist living on Bonaire since 2005 .... read it, lots of things explained...
    can be bought as an ebook
    Brigitte - owner Coco Palm Garden

  7. #17
    AlbertA is offline Bonaire Lover Bonaire Talker
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    Bridge, you say:
    "Yes, the Bonaireans voted for a "direct link " with The Netherlands. But they did not vote to become a Municipality of The Netherlands with all the rules and laws as in the Netherlands"

    And:
    "but even I voted for a direct link with Holland. The idea was - more or less said so by the Green Party - something like an oversea municipality as the French have with some of their islands"

    1) The French have different ways of "treating" "their" islands. There are the OCT's like for instance Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Saint Barthelemy and Saint Martin, and there are the outermost regions (like for instance Guadeloupe and Martinique), both types with different rules and relations with mainland france.
    2) In all those french territories there are tensions between the islanders and the mainland, for instance (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Fr...eral_strikes): "Residents of Guadeloupe and Martinique, whose economies are dependent on tourism, have a very high cost of living.[7] Many residents feel their salaries are not keeping up with the rising cost of food, utilities and other necessities.[7] The prices of basic commodities and food staples are much higher in Guadeloupe and Martinique than in metropolitan France."

    Also, you write:
    "and of course the moment it costs more money Bonaire is not Holland for the Dutch politicians only if is interesting to them Bonaire is Dutch."
    This sounds a bit harsh considering all the money that has been flowing into Bonaire in the recent years.
    A lot of the problems now encountered, ranging from power failures to lack of police capacity, seem to be more an "inherited" problem from the Dutch Antilles than newly imported problems because of the dutch.

  8. #18
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    But Albert, I said it was a mistake to vote for the direct link ... a big mistake to trust the politicians Dutch and Bonaireans .... the book I mentioned explains all in good details how Booi and the Dutch cooked it up.
    It explains also very well the mentality of the Bonaireans who do not complain and protest ... for the moment they do it only at the local snacks, you should listen to them there !
    But which Dutch with some power ever in the last years listened to the people living here .....

    But what do you try to say ... giving money means excuses for bad behavior, for dominating, for pushing the laws on Bonaire in a very short time ?
    An excuse to send Dutch civil servants who make an unbelivable mess of the new tax for houses - houses 2 times on the list now from front and back street or around the corner, pieces of land sold many years ago on the list for the ex and the new owners, houses with such a high value that it has no reality with live on Bonaire ? And when going to the RCN office you make at least 3 trips before somebody is taking your protest letter .... and of course if the value of your house is crazy you have to spend now a few hundred $$ to protest with no security it will be taken into account ... and an reply you can expect in the next 10 months ..
    Giving papers to any of these offices does not mean you get an answer in the next few weeks, you are happy if it is in a year ... if even that ...
    An excuses to tell the people here to adapt to the Dutch way fast without any consideration for the live and culture on Bonaire ? Saying the most rude things to people or over people on Bonaire ?
    Sending everybody who is really sick to Colombia (corruption comes to mind !) - what would the Dutch say if they are send p.ex. to the Ukraine ????
    No consideration that people who live here for many many years have build up a live also off island - could be Holland, but could also be Belgium, Spain, the Dominican Republic or even the USA... but the private health insurance these people had is taken away and you now you may only go in case of an emergency to a doctor in your country of choice
    ... and what does the high representative of the Kingdom says in a press conference " than they should not travel so much " .... and all this and much more the people on Bonaire have to accept because Holland takes over and gives money ....
    You find my comments harsh ... I find the Dutch way more than harsh and rude !
    Brigitte - owner Coco Palm Garden

  9. #19
    AlbertA is offline Bonaire Lover Bonaire Talker
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    "Sending everybody who is really sick to Colombia (corruption comes to mind !) - what would the Dutch say if they are send p.ex. to the Ukraine ???"

    Interesting comment. Have you heard all the complaints (at the snacks, in the offices, everywhere) about the horrific service the people got at the SEHOS in Curacao? I mean: having to bring your own towels, lamps, fans is one thing, but that the nurses are not even helping with the regular medical necessities...well, is those situations are really something that everyone is longing for to return?

    I agree with you about the bureaucracy of the Dutch government. However, it seems like it is not all that different from Antillean bureaucracy. I remember all the stories about prospective businesses not getting a license to operate, not even after 1 year. Unless of course you managed to arrange something with the dignitary who was responsible for that matter.

    Not that this is a justification for Dutch bureaucracy of course, but still, what actually did you suspect was going to be the future of Bonaire with the "direct link"? What would you have wanted to see improve, remain the same, etc. I've heard enough things about what is wrong, but what would you have wanted? And why did you believe the local politicians (who (mis)behaved like this since the 1960's....)? A vague notion of the French connections would have clearly left you in more or less the same situation.

    One last thing, you write:
    "The imposed law for Euthanasia, for marriage of homosexuels, for abortion ... absolute against the culture of most Bonaireans !"
    Do you really think that abortion is against the culture of most Bonairians? Do you know how many (illegal) abortions actually take place every year on Bonaire? Maybe you should get your facts straight. In Bonaire there are MUCH more abortions per capita than in the Netherlands, Switzerland and the States...

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